Douglas Murray on Israel, Hamas, and the War in Ukraine

Douglas Murray, author of "The War on the West" and "The Madness of Crowds", joins Lex Fridman to discuss the ongoing conflicts in Israel/Gaza and Ukraine, as well as broader geopolitical issues facing democracies today.

On the Israel-Hamas conflict:

Murray provides a detailed account of the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel, describing it as "a brigades size attack on Israel from Gaza" where Hamas "broke through the security fence and attacked all the softest targets they could." He notes that Hamas "murdered and raped and burned and kidnapped" civilians, including at a music festival where they "rampaged through that with RPGs and Kalashnikovs and grenades and hammers."

He argues that Hamas is fundamentally a "death cult" driven by an ideology of hatred towards Jews and Israel, rather than a legitimate resistance movement. Murray states that Hamas "really do mean what they say and that they really do mean what they say they want to do" in terms of destroying Israel.

Regarding Israel's military response, Murray contends it has been largely proportionate and targeted, despite the high civilian death toll in Gaza. He says Israel has been "fighting a house-to-house war against this terrorist group" rather than indiscriminately bombing. Murray acknowledges the tragedy for Palestinian civilians but argues Hamas bears primary responsibility for using them as human shields.

On criticisms of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Murray says he is "certainly not evil" as some claim, though he acknowledges Netanyahu has made mistakes. He argues Netanyahu sees it as "his historic purpose to defend the only homeland of the Jewish people."

On the war in Ukraine:

Murray describes his visits to the frontlines in Ukraine, noting the "admiration for people defending their country, defending their homes, defending their families." He says Ukrainian soldiers' morale has declined somewhat since 2022 as they are "more exhausted" now, but they remain committed to the fight.

Regarding Russia's motivations, Murray argues Putin is driven by "the basically the reconstitution of the Soviet Union" and imperial ambitions beyond just Ukraine. He believes even if there is a ceasefire, Putin is likely to "use the opportunity to advance again" in the future.

On the challenges facing democracies:

Murray expresses concern about the rise of extremist ideologies and "death cults" that pose a threat to democratic societies. He argues many in the West fail to fully comprehend or confront the "fanaticism" driving groups like Hamas or the Iranian regime.

He criticizes what he sees as misplaced sympathy for Hamas among some Western activists, arguing there is "nothing about Gaza that was an open air prison" before October 7th as some claim. Murray contends Hamas has deliberately kept Gazans impoverished and radicalized rather than building a functioning society.

More broadly, Murray warns against the temptation to embrace simplistic conspiracy theories or scapegoat particular groups (like Jews) to explain complex world events. He argues this stems from "a sort of central conservative insight you know, things can always be worse" and a failure to appreciate the messy realities of geopolitics.

Despite the serious challenges he outlines, Murray says he remains hopeful about the future, drawing encouragement from "smart young people" he meets. He believes engaging with youth and fostering critical thinking is key to preserving democratic values in the face of extremist ideologies.

In conclusion, Murray offers a sobering but not despairing view of the conflicts in Israel/Gaza and Ukraine, as well as broader trends threatening democracies. He makes a case for clear moral distinctions between democratic societies and authoritarian regimes or terrorist groups, while acknowledging the complexities involved in real-world conflicts. Murray's analysis provides much food for thought on how democracies can navigate an increasingly turbulent geopolitical landscape.

Article created from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvI42TyE5Ww