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Start for freeMatt Mullenweg, co-founder of WordPress and CEO of Automattic, joined the podcast to discuss his journey with open source software, building WordPress into a platform that powers over 40% of websites, and his approach to acquisitions and community building.
Origins of WordPress and Open Source Passion
Matt shared how he first got interested in open source as a teenager in Houston:
"I was a broke kid in Houston, Texas and my passions were jazz and economics. I would barter and trade - I'd build websites for local musicians in exchange for lessons. These websites exposed me to open source software."
He explained how this early exposure, combined with his interest in economics and philosophy, led him to view open source as a critical idea:
"Combining all this philosophy I studied, I felt that open source was actually the most important idea of our generation. If the founding fathers were around today I think they would be open source advocates."
Matt elaborated on why he sees open source as so important:
"As more and more of our lives are influenced and actually controlled by the software we use, if we don't have fundamental freedoms attached to that software we're not truly free."
He described the four key freedoms enshrined in the GPL open source license that WordPress uses:
- Freedom to use the software for any purpose
- Freedom to see how the software works
- Freedom to change it
- Freedom to redistribute those changes
Matt said he decided to devote his life to open source, which led him to get involved with early open source projects and eventually co-found WordPress.
Building WordPress and the Open Source Community
Matt shared some insights into how WordPress grew from a small fork of an abandoned project into the dominant content management system it is today:
"WordPress was actually a fork of an abandoned open source project called B2. The codebase actually started with something that was already out there that I was a user and contributor to."
He emphasized the importance of building a movement and community around the project:
"If there's something unique I have for your audience I would say it's don't just build a product, build a movement. To the extent that we've been successful I think it's that we give people something to believe in - a philosophy, a worldview."
Some key elements of building the WordPress community that Matt highlighted:
- Giving people something to believe in beyond just the software
- Creating ways for people to get involved and contribute
- Running events and meetups
- Having forums and ways for people to connect
- Doing Q&As and town halls to engage with users
He also noted the importance of the plugin and theme ecosystem:
"Our whole ecosystem of plugins and themes is part of what's made WordPress so successful. The core features of a CMS you can kind of write with a few developers in a few weeks. But to replicate those 60,000 plugins and themes - gosh, no one's done it. It's a huge moat."
Matt emphasized that WordPress aims to be a true platform where the ecosystem makes more money than the core product. He contrasted this with other platforms that have pulled the rug out from under developers who became too successful.
Recent Controversies and Challenges
Matt addressed some of the recent controversies and challenges WordPress has faced, particularly around trademark issues with WP Engine:
"There's a company called WP Engine. By 2018 they got bought out by a private equity firm called Silver Lake. Since 2019, WP Engine has kind of changed a bit. They started using the trademark, they're offering something called WordPress - I refer to it as like a bastardized hacked up version of it. It's diluting our brand."
He explained that WP Engine was using WordPress branding in confusing ways, with many users thinking they were officially associated with WordPress. They also disabled some core WordPress features to save money.
Matt said they tried to negotiate with WP Engine for 18 months to resolve the trademark issues, but WP Engine was not acting in good faith:
"While they were negotiating with us it appears they were also preparing this lawsuit against us. I've been very fortunate in my business career that 99% of the time people I've dealt with in business have been ethical, straightforward, honest. I haven't really faced any bald-faced lying or duplicitous behavior - very very rarely. But I think that was happening here."
This culminated in Matt giving a controversial speech at WordCamp criticizing WP Engine, which was followed by WP Engine filing a multi-million dollar lawsuit against Matt personally and WordPress.
Matt acknowledged this has led to a lot of negative sentiment towards him online:
"Previously like 1% of the world thought I was terrible and now I feel like it's up to like 4 or 5%."
However, he emphasized that the core WordPress community and developers have remained supportive. He also noted that sentiment analysis shows the negativity is concentrated on certain social platforms like Twitter.
Acquisitions and Building Automattic
Matt discussed Automattic's approach to acquisitions, including the high-profile purchase of Tumblr:
"We ended up buying it, but we bought it sort of taking on all liabilities including I think they were under investigation by the FTC, there were lawsuits, there's all this sort of stuff. It was free like a puppy, not free like beer."
He said running Tumblr has been a humbling experience and very different from other Automattic products. They are in the process of migrating Tumblr to run on WordPress on the backend.
For acquisitions in general, Matt said they look for:
- Companies that are already doing well that they can accelerate
- Talented teams they can plug into existing projects
- Founders who want to stay on long-term
He contrasted this with private equity firms that often hollow out companies they acquire.
Matt also shared that Automattic is now doing about $500 million in annual recurring revenue, with WooCommerce being the majority of that.
Lessons in Community Building
Matt offered some key lessons he's learned in building the WordPress community:
- Give people something to believe in beyond just the product
- Bring art, soul and fun into it - it doesn't have to be serious all the time
- Create ways for people to get involved and contribute
- Run events and meetups to bring people together
- Have forums and ways for people to connect
- Do Q&As and town halls to engage with users
- Build a true platform where the ecosystem can thrive
He emphasized the importance of being a good steward of communities and software over the long-term.
Future Plans
Matt shared that Automattic is working on a new product called Beeper that brings together messaging from multiple platforms:
"We added a new mission last year which is messaging. Relaunching in a few months, it's a product called Beeper which takes all your Telegram, Instagram DM, Signal - everything brings it all into one app."
He's excited to be working on something at an early stage again, comparing it to where WordPress was in 2003-2004.
Matt also noted they are hiring extensively, particularly for design and product roles. He highlighted that Automattic is fully distributed and pays the same global salaries regardless of location.
Key Takeaways
- Open source is about fundamental freedoms and building technology that belongs to everyone
- Building a movement and community is as important as building the product itself
- Being a good steward of software and communities over the long-term builds trust
- Acquisitions should accelerate good products/teams, not hollow them out
- Engaging openly and directly with users/community is crucial, even during controversies
- There's still room for innovation in mature markets like web publishing and ecommerce
Matt's journey with WordPress demonstrates the incredible impact open source software can have when combined with strong community building. His long-term commitment to democratizing publishing has shaped the modern web.
Article created from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fves5chVZRA&
